Transcript of Sibel Edmonds testimony about
Turkish American Legal Defense Fund

Told by the sources

Plaintiff, :
v. : Case No.
: 2009E-003
Defendant. :
August 8, 2009
National Whisteblowers
3238 P Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007


called for examination by Counsel for the Defendant, pursuant to Notice of Deposition, at the National Whistleblowers Center, located at 3238 P Street, N.W., Suite 690, Washington, D.C., when were present on behalf of the respective parties

Transcript of Sibel Edmonds testimony

Page 30:
Okay. So when you talk about the covert Turkish lobby, what are you referring to there?

10A Activities that would involve trying to obtain very sensitive, classified, highly classified U.S. intelligence information, weapons technology information, classified congressional records, recruiting -- recruiting key U.S. individuals with access to highly sensitive information, blackmailing, bribery. These are some of the ones that just perhaps -- and there are many others that I'm19unable to think of.

20Q Well, by way of example, I think you indicated that Ms. Dickerson -- by the way, is she ever referred to as Jan Dickerson?

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1A Correct. That's how she went at the FBI, and as far as I know, elsewhere she used her middle name in the United States, Jan


5Q Now, I read in some of the reports6about an incident where Ms. Dickerson arrived -- showed up at your home unexpectedly on Sunday.

9 A Correct.

10Q And can you tell us what happened when that -- when she arrived there?

12 A Sure. She came to my house with her husband, who at the time was Major Douglas Dickerson, and he identified himself first as the officer for Air Force, but later said that1 his real task was operations involving records procurements by countries in Central Asia and Turkey, and that he directly worked with Douglas Feith and Paul Wolfowitz.




21A At the time this would be 2001, December.

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All right, and they came to your home on Sunday morning.

3A Yeah, social visit they said.

4Q And during that discussion, during that visit, did you come to believe that Ms Dickerson was recruiting you?

7A Yes, I did.

8Q For what?

9A They wanted me to joint the American Turkish Council, and they told me that I would be provided with many benefits,

both monetary but also prestigious benefits, if I were to enroll with them.

14Q Okay, and did you know at the time that the American Turkish Council was one of the counterintelligence targets?

17A Absolutely, yes.

18Q And did you believe Ms. Dickerson knew that as well?

20A She -- yes, and the fact because her husband associated with American Turkish Council and she worked for them.

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1Q And did you report this effort to recruit you to your superiors?

3A Immediately. The next day I reported it in writing to my direct administrative supervisor, and a few days later to my agent, who was my supervisory agent, but also again in writing to the FBI's Personnel Security Office, because I was obligated for my top secret clearance to report recruitment attempts.

11Q Now, why if you can tell me, why would the American Turkish Council be a counterintelligence target?

14A Certain individuals form that 15organization, American Turkish Council,16certain individuals were involved with other individuals outside American Turkish Council, which includes diplomatic community and Turkish diplomatic community -- sorry -- and other subchapter organizations. I say "subchapter" because even hough it's not known, ATA is not formally

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1 known as American Turkish Council's subchapter, but they do a lot of activities through ATA in various cities and states in

the United States, and those individuals were involved in operations that were counterintelligence related, and not -- if

they were against the United States interest on security,

9Q Okay. Was there -- let me be sure10I have this correct -- was there a particular11individual at the American Turkish Council who12had connections to the Turkish Embassy in13Washington at that time?

14A There were several people.

15Q And again, just because I don't know, to your knowledge, was the American Turkish Council an organization that was supported by the Turkish government?

19A I don't know directly, but indirectly --



FEIN: That's conjecture.



WITNESS: -- I mean --

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1MR. FEIN: Object, object.
Only speak based upon your personal knowledge. Conjecture and speculation otherwise, I move to strike your answer unless it's based upon5personal knowledge.



Based on --



You can answer the question --



Based on my personal --



-- just as I asked it.

13 THE WITNESS: -- knowledge, they were indirectly supporting it, supporting. Turkish government was indirectly supporting he American Turkish Council, certain individuals and operations and projects against.



20Q Okay, and how were they supplying that support?

22A Without getting into specifics,

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1 it's hard to explain. They could arrange for intermediary business individuals to make payments for certain activities, lobbying activities or intelligence gathering activities or activities involved in weapon procurement deals between Turkey and the United States.

8Q So one of the means, basic means of support would be money, correct?

10A Money when they could, yes.

11Q So if I said that the American Turkish Council, for example, was an organization supported by the Turkish government, that wouldn't be an unreasonable15assumption?

16A Correct.

17Q What about some of these other members of the Turkish lobby that we've talked about? Would I be unreasonable in assuming that those organizations might be receiving support from the Turkish government?

22A They were all receiving -- the

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1 ones that I knew of, yes, theoretically.

2 MR. FEIN: I think the question was -- can I just clarify for my own mind? -- the question was based upon the witness' personal knowledge, she knows that all the6other organizations that were targets, they were receiving money from the government of Turkish.

9 MR. MARINO: Okay.

10 MR. FEIN: Is that the question and answer?

Mr. Fein is going to have an opportunity, I think, to ask some questions when I'm finished. Maybe now you and I will just have questions and answers.



17Q So what happened when you reported to your superiors at the FBI that Ms. Dickerson were trying to recruit you for this20organization, American Turkish Council?

21A At the initial stage -- this is for Washington field office before it went all

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1 the way up to the FBI Headquarters -- there was environmental (phonetic) panic. The agent I worked with, Special Agent ennis Sharshar, informed the counterespionage section, department of the FBI; write a letter to the FBI Headquarters, and he also asked for immediate damage assessment because some of the -- our FBI's counterintelligence primary targets -- the targets were graded in different -- they have different rates -- some primary targets were the ones that Ms. Dickerson was working with closely, and she and her husband associating, but that was the initial response.

15Q Okay, and ultimately did they take any action against Ms. Dickerson or her husband?

18A Again, initially during this initial stage, they, I believe, they asked her to take polygraph, and they also -- the FBI's counterespionage unit, they set up the date and time to have some kind of an

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1 interrogation. They called it the surprise interrogation session with her that they set up, but they were prevented from pursuing it later.

5Q And they also had you take a6polygraph test, correct?

7A Correct.

8Q And the polygraph examiners found that you were not deceptive?

10A Yes, I was absolutely truthful.

11Q Okay. Now, in your experience both at the FBI and since then, what is it that the Turkish lobby -- what kinds of issues are they traditionally concerned about in our country?

16A Various issues that I'm aware of. Some, the more overt ones, the foreign policy of the United States. Another, the weapon procurement from the United States and the military aid, and political front is being able to secure grants from United States Congress for their operations or some of them,

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1 joint operations in Central Asia and Middle East, the front companies for construction or road building, et cetera, and to be able to secure these grants from Congress for those front organizations. Armenian genocide and preventing that from ever being brought up or passing Congress or even discussed in the mainstream media is another political objectives that hey pursue very strongly. These are the overt ones. So those are -- these are the overt ones.

13Q All right. In your experience then, these are issues that the Turkish government is concerned about?

16A Not only, yes, Turkish government is concerned, but also other entities with their own special interest who are very concerned about these issues.

20Q Can you identify those?

21A Some of them are business entities. The others are more like clusters

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1 of criminal gangs would be the best way to2describe them that may or may not be3independent from the central government.

4Q You mentioned the Armenian genocide issues. My understanding is that there have been resolutions proposed, introduced, discussed in Congress to recognize8the Armenian genocide, correct?




10Q And those have been controversial resolutions over the years?




13Q And so when you refer to this Turkish lobby regarding that as an issue, it would be their intent to prevent such a16resolution from being passed by the U.S. Congress, correct?

18A Correct.

19Q Now, am I correct that -- I know you don't work for the FBI now, but would you consider yourself sort of still involved in some of the issues that we've been discussing?

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